White Guilt... My Black ***

These black conservatives are starting to irk me again. I had come to grips with many of them and many of their ways. I’d written off Larry Elders and Rev. Jesse Peterson as anomalies and accepted that my black conservative brothers and sisters may not be as evil as I once thought they were.

Then Shelby Steele dropped a book called WHITE GUILT: How Blacks & Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era.


moral authority and so act guiltily whether they feel guilt or not. They struggle, above all else, to dissociate themselves from the past sins they are stigmatized with. When they behave in ways that invoke the memory of those sins, they must labor to prove that they have not relapsed into their group's former sinfulness. So when America--the greatest embodiment of Western power--goes to war in Third World Iraq, it must also labor to dissociate that action from the great Western sin of imperialism. Thus, in Iraq we are in two wars, one against an insurgency and another against the past--two fronts, two victories to win, one military, the other a victory of dissociation.

The collapse of white supremacy--and the resulting white guilt--introduced a new mechanism of power into the world: stigmatization with the evil of the Western past.


Where to start? Where to start? Mr. Steele is doing nothing that many other authors of social commentary do; build straw men then knock them down with their tightly woven theory wrapped in provocative catch phrases. White Guilt… what a great title. It is sure to bring the choir to its feet but is as legitimate as monopoly money at a crap game.

Shelby Steele claims that by forcing white people to disassociate themselves from their racist past, they’ve lost the moral authority to tell us, black folks, what we need to hear. He then goes on to write that the success of the Civil Rights movement has done more to destroy the black family then Jim Crow and slavery did. What would make a black man say some dumb crap like that? Maybe I’ll have to do a post on what slavery was really like for black people since so many want to romanticize it.

I take issue with Shelby associating the ills of the black community with white guilt because it suggest that it is imperative that white people have the authority to tell us what we need to hear in order for the black community to get its act together. How long has Minister Farrakhan preach about personal responsibility and black men taking their proper place in the black family? How many organizations are in the black community fighting to make it better? Mr. Steele and his kind pompously sit on the outside pounding their chest screaming, 'you black folks need to be more like us.' He is profittering on the same "Race Card Industry" that he claims fills the pockets of Rev. Jackson and Rev. Sharpton.

We know there are some challenges within the black community. However, we also know that those challenges are not unique to the black community and that ills of American society disproportionately impact the black community. When the economy is bad for America, its horrendous for the black community. Illegitimacy, crime, drugs, divorce, education, underachievement – are all problems in America. They impact black America differently and disproportionately.

I truly don’t understand his idea that black anger is perpetuating white guilt. As far as I’m concerned, black people are not angry enough. In fact, if there is one thing the Post Civil Rights Movement did it was usher in an era of complacency. Those that could did, and those that couldn’t were left behind to survive in the pit. As a community, we have dropped the ball.

But if an under funded schools system, a two tier justice system, a redlining mortgage industry, gentrification, racial profiling are the results of white. guilt Then let me be the first to say to white folks, you don’t have to feel guilty anymore.

There is enough blame to go around when it comes to the failures in the Post Civil Rights era I wouldn’t even know where to start. Shelby associating the problems in the black community with white guilt is a good way to curry favor from white folks and sell books… but I’m not buying it.

But Maybe I'm Wrong. Talk to me:

1. What is white guilt and how does it impact the black community?
2. Why shouldn't black people have the moral authority when it comes to race?
3. Shelby states that we should give white people credit for their dramatic turnaround concerning racial attitudes. What say you?
4. If you're white, do you actually feel guilty because America's racist past?
5. If yes. How does that guilt manifest itself in your interaction with black people?
6. Do you think the black community was better off 50, 100, 150 ago?
7. Shelby believes black people don't know how to live under freedom. What say you?
8. The theory of white guilt: a) a valid point b) a good way to sell book.

 

27 Responses to White Guilt... My Black ***

  1. cynthia Says:
    Impressive! Very interesting analysis and tough questions. I will have to try and tackle this when I get a little more time.
  2. Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden Says:
    05 10 06

    1. What is white guilt and how does it impact the black community?
    White guilt is elusive, but does exist. It is a state of mind that prevents them from looking at people of color as equals, and instead paints us as victims who need to be rescued. It is a form of paternalistic racism. I have mentioned how when I was in school in East Oakland, one teacher went out on a long sick leave and had to have two long terms subs. One was a White Hippie Chick who had the kids singing Kum Ba Yah and gave everyone in the class all A's. Now, I know Tyrone was the class screw up, but he got an A in all his subjects too? Something was wrong, and I think it was the "soft bigotry of low expectations."

    When they got a Black male ex military sub in there, the class was known to be the most orderly and academically oriented and when the report cards came out, everyone was more on the B-/C+ level (which was fair).

    I DO think that those that suffer with White Guilt are generally more sensitive about racial issues and how the past effects the present regarding institutionalized racism and other covert forms...However, in order for us all to get along, we don't just need for them to be sensitive; we need them to be our equals and treat us accordingly.
    2. Why shouldn't black people have the moral authority when it comes to race?
    Okay, your question is a straw man that makes no sense. You sound like Chance now:) I totally abhor the position that Black folks don't have the moral authority to lead themselves. That is the biggest load of garbage that I have EVER heard! And since I am not generally a fan or Mr. Steele's and have only read excerpts from the book, I don't know if that applies to his logic but it very well may!
    3. Shelby states that we should give white people credit for their dramatic turnaround concerning racial attitudes. What say you?
    Well, I say that we need to give credit to those who stirred up the pot to make folks take notice that the civil liberties of Blacks were being violated every second! This includes giving props to Nat Turner, Denmark Vesey, T'oussaint L'Overture, Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman, Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, John Brown and the Quakers. The turnaround in racial attitudes wasn't just a Black or a White thing; it was a mutual thing that occured because if something wasn't done, we could've entered another civil war, AND the majority of human beings who have hearts and souls KNEW the civil liberty violations that Blacks fell victim to were out and out wrong! His view is myopic at best because it is NON INCLUSIVE.
    4. If you're white, do you actually feel guilty because America's racist past?
    N/A
    5. If yes. How does that guilt manifest itself in your interaction with black people?
    N/A
    6. Do you think the black community was better off 50, 100, 150 ago?
    That is a loaded question James. In terms of legal recognition of civil rights, we are better off now. However in terms of having a well defined culture and community cohesion, we were better off perhaps fifty years ago. I think all of America still had neighborhoods at that time, and despite racial segregation, many Blacks were able to do well academically AND economically. I think the biggest fault of the Great Society movement was that somehow Blacks moved away from self sufficiency and moved towards the government helping us out, whereas before the government was at best ambivalent towards our needs and hostile at the very worst! If we had the ethnic cohesion that we had fifty years ago, a sense of purpose for self improvement and the amended laws of today we would be unstoppable!
    7. Shelby believes black people don't know how to live under freedom. What say you?
    Sounds like Chance's BS to me. Now like I said, I haven't read the book so I don't want to take what he said out of context, but from what I gather that statement is mired in bs.
    8. The theory of white guilt: a) a valid point b) a good way to sell book.
    a)I DO think there is such a thing as White guilt. Yet, the tone of this book seems to be aimed at letting those who DO feel guilty off of the hook, and you paint it like he was grateful that we were enslaved so that the White man could teach us manners. So either you are giving a skewed representation of what he has said, or he has a lot of issues indeed.

    b)Regarding the comment you left on the JCP post. He is NOT Mr. Steele, and I don't see how his book of personal experiences is anything like a book on White guilt. Do you?

    Excellent post James.
  3. James Manning Says:
    Mahn,

    Thanks for commenting. Ok, I got a few jabs in there but I think there is a such thing as white guilt but I don't think it plays a role in the condition of the black community. Obviously, there are some liberal policies that had a negative impact and by and large, liberal white people are more sensitive to racial issues.

    I think the moral authority is legit because Mr. Steele makes it a prominent part of his theory. I really don't believe one race has any more authority than the other. Right is right.

    As for the turnaround of white people. I guess I could give them credit but damn, how many people had to die before it took place. Had it been a debate on the front porch that turned them around, then yeah, that's some pretty good introspective thinking going on. But when it takes publishing the face of a lynched boy to generate some empathy - I have to wonder what's in the hearts of minds of folks.

    As for JC, I do like the guy. I would never put him with Mr. Steele.
  4. Timmer Says:
    mahndisa....bingo on the paternalistic racism comment (which is not meant to imply that everything else you wrote is crap). I even saw it in action in the hardware store I work at a few years ago. A very liberal guy who worked with me a few months would bend over backwards for black customers and an hour later give a white customer with the same problem the brush off. I could only conclude white guilt on these instances. So there it is, I do believe white guilt exists, but I believe it to be at least extremely rare or at most far less occurring than its counterpart (which would be blatant racism - that, I see all the time where I work).

    Now what I am about to say is hard for me to articulate, but know that no malice is intended...
    As a white kid in a largely white community, I grew up around the conservative sort of racism that considered black folk inferior to white folk. Because in recent years I have turned to the left side of the aisle politically, I recognize the subtle racist thoughts that pop into my head as a result of my exclusively white upbringing. I also have the experience (on a weekly basis) of a boss telling me to keep an eye on a black guy in the store for no better reason than that he is black. Sometimes, all of this stuff going on causes me to get angry or flustered and I experience what might be labeled as 'white guilt'. That is, I feel sorry for whomever the racist thought or comment was directed at and overcompensate on that person's behalf. So, I do exactly what the extremely liberal guy I worked with would do; I end up going the extra mile for a minority customer. Then I start thinking some more and realize I am actually being racist in assuming this person needs extra attention based on her/his race. Then I mentally kick the crap out of myself and move on.
    I hope that was understandable.

    What I am trying to say is that I believe 'white guilt' (or as it's called around here: 'liberal guilt') indeed exists, and I believe it from my own experience. This is because I am that sensitive white liberal type discussed above. However, I am not dumb enough to let myself be overcome with what one might describe as paternalistic sympathy feelings. So, to answer question 4, I do not feel guilty because of America's racist past. I do feel guilty for the racist thoughts I have resulting from my own subtly-racist upbringing which is arguably a result of America's racist past. Yes, that is a loaded liberal answer to a simple question. But it is honest.

    As for the moral authority stuff....wow...I do not see how any one race could legitimately claim moral authority over any other. I agree that right is right.

    "the success of the Civil Rights movement has done more to destroy the black family then Jim Crow and slavery did." - Again, wow. I have heard that argument from other people I know, albeit in the form of 'black folk were better off with segregation.' Crap. Crap. Crap. And again I say crap. To say that white people need to get their act together so they might legitimize any effort to tell the black community how it can do better...seems like a blanket racist statement to me. But, I have not read the book so I am not sure if that assertion is made. If it is, I am pissed.

    So, anyway, because I have taken up too much space already...James, everything you say in the last 5 paragraphs, for what it's worth, I do not think you are wrong. But then again, I'm white and I have experienced a little white guilt...so perhaps I lack the moral authority to have an opinion.

    And by the way, Thank You!! I can stop feeling guilty!...a black guy told me so!

    (wow, that's gonna piss some people without a sense of humor right off)
  5. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    To Jay,

    All I can is in this essay I wrote titled white people fear being called racist. And they do have guilt to some degree when whites deal with blacks they deal with us from a moral stand point of view, when whites deal with other non-whites they deal with them from more of a political point of view. Whites also deal with Native American Indians from a moral stand point of view also. So blacks and Native Americans are dealt with from a moral point of view by whites.


    white people fear being called racist essay below.

    http://chancellorfiles.typepad.com/chancellorfiles/2006/03/white_people_fe_1.html


    BY Chance
  6. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    TO Jay,


    Shelby makes some good points and probaly some bad ones too he is observing black pathologies that keep manifesting in the black community. These negative pathologies is one reasons that when blacks often want to buy a house they try never to buy a house in a black community if they can afford to buy a house in a white one. All because of these pathologies and other problems. I wrote n essay titled black pathologies and unemployment. I could say a lot here in favor of STEELE and A lot aginst STEELE but I will leave it at that.
  7. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    Mahndisa said: You sound like Chance now:) Sounds like Chance's BS to me.


    Chance: MRS Mahndisa Rigmaiden please madame please leave me alone please I don't want to be bothered by you GOD bless, your husband, your child, Family, etc. I wish you swell and well but please leave me alone I don't want to hear from you if you are just going to be negative. You knew that I would be by Jay's (James) blog because I can by the other day and Jay is on my blogroll.

    Man you are not a victim at my hands so leave me alone you have brought my name up at other blogs in the past. Please what do you want if it is forginess then like I told you before you are forgiven. You have called me all kinds of bad names and I never retured the favor (insulted you back). Somebody has to be mature and not let worthlessness esculate. Leave me alone my opinions are my opnions and actually you have misquoted me about race too. Please do not bring this negativity to Jay's blog please leave me alone if you are going to be nice, loving, positive, etc then I give permission to engage me and I will return answer. You say thinhgs about me because I ignore you you go other blogs trying to confront me if you are negative then leave me alone. You fight with others too and you fought somebody else over too. Leave me alone I have now given you some attention that you keep trying to get. Now leave my name and me alone madame please. Jay I am sorry that you have tyo see this mess. I was going to write alot about here in this comment section until I say MRS Mahndisa I said if I wrote about race and steele it would just cause somebody here to wnat to fight with me. So I kept everthing short sorry that you have to see this jay.
    My opions on blacks, whites, etc are very accurate too.


    BY Chance
  8. Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden Says:
    05 10 06

    Hello James and Timmer:
    Timmer you hit the nail on the head and thanks for sharing your personal experiences with White guilt. I think you are the one who has said the most poignant stuff here.

    As to the comment from Chance, Chance please remove my Technorati tags from your site. It is a blatant misrepresentation of me and my views for you to tag my site and I would appreciate it if you delink me immediately. I said my comment NOT to egg you on, but because you have said those things yourself. I can say whatever I wish and don't misquote anyone. You have now gotten more attention than is worth it. If you don't want your opinions to be the subject of scrutiny, why post in the PUBLIC DOMAIN? You insult me and ALL OTHER BLACK PEOPLE with your inane rants.
  9. Cynthia Says:
    1. What is white guilt and how does it impact the black community?

    Individually there may be some Whites that feel guilty, but overall, I don't think this society feels any guilt at all otherwise provisions would have been made to at least try and make us whole. Remember the New Deal for Whites, this gave all of them a fighting chance.

    2. Why shouldn't black people have the moral authority when it comes to race?

    Since I haven't read the book, I'm not sure what he is trying to say. However, since the majority of Black people believe in religions that were created by others, this indicates that we have given up our moral authority to govern ourselves to someone else.

    3. Shelby states that we should give white people credit for their dramatic turnaround concerning racial attitudes. What say you?

    Since a study recently demonstrated that Black people are still being discriminated against based on how Afro-centric they look, this shows among other things that the racial attitude in America hasn't changed. Take a look for yourself. I have plenty of these types of examples. The author is clearly in denial here and/or trying to perpetuate a falsehood to appeal to a wider audience.

    http://lawweb.colorado.edu/profiles/pubpdfs/pizzi/PizziMJRL.pdf


    6. Do you think the black community was better off 50, 100, 150 ago?

    We were better off because we at least had businesses and we were a tight nit community back then. As far as assets owned (net worth), Blacks have not progressed one iota since slavery ended.

    The one point I agree with Shelby is that this society, not just the Democrats, under the auspices of civil rights and affirmative actions penalized Black families by giving aid to women with children only if they didn't have a man in the house. Without making provisions for Black Men to take care of their families like what was giving to White Men, this in essence was a provision that was purposely geared towards the dismantlement/disintegration of the Black family. The policies of this country have rewarded single parent households headed by Black women (forget about the man) while it encouraged (rewarded) two parent homes for Whites.

    7. Shelby believes black people don't know how to live under freedom. What say you?

    Who's free? Or, maybe I should say are we free? Let’s take a look. If 70% of all drug users in the U.S. are White and up to 90% of those in jail are Black (depending on where you live) and these same individuals are in jail because of drug use, one can make an argument that we are not free. One can also conclude this is another form of slavery and many don’t know they are still enslaved. For instance, in many states you lose the right to vote. You lose the right to get loans for schools. You lose the right to make a livable wage, etc., etc., etc.

    8. The theory of white guilt: a) a valid point b) a good way to sell book.

    It's simply a good way to sell a book. It actually gives white people some leeway in easing their conscious by saying see, not all Blacks think we were wrong for the injustices that were meted out against them by us.
  10. Timmer Says:
    good comments, cynthia

    very good...especially numbers 1, 2, 3, 6, 7,and 8!
  11. Malik Says:
    Great post James. I think you get to the heart of the matter when you make the observation that he's essentially asserting that if black folks would accept a proper dressing down from white folks, then their lives would change for the better. It's a call to see ourselves as mere adjuncts to white folks, which is a far more morally and psychologically devastating condition than any expression of "white guilt" could ever produce.
  12. Bushwack Says:
    I might have to comment on this, but I have to think about it first, I get in trouble when I let emotions take center stage before logic. (Therapy is good, fire is hot, man I'm learning)

    Keyshawn, Smith the most talent on one teams offence since???? (Fill in the blank James) LOL
  13. Diane S. Says:
    Before I start, white supremacy ended? When? Did I miss a memo?

    1. What is white guilt and how does it impact the black community?

    If you accept the premise that if you profit from oppresion, you are in some ways responsible for that oppression, than all white people (including myself) are guilty of subjugating black people. There's also the whole hidden prejudice thing. And speaking for myself, how can I look at the gross injustices in our society and not feel somewhat guilty?

    2. Why shouldn't black people have the moral authority when it comes to race?

    Black people should absolutely have the moral authority when it comes to race, especially as it applies to the black community. What I mean is that perhaps black people shouldn't be granted the same authority in the Hispanic Community, in Native American communities, etc.

    Shelby says White people have lost the moral authority to tell black people what to do. I wonder under what conditions Shelby would consider it appropriate for white America to tell black people what to do? The whole concept is just racist as hell.

    3. Shelby states that we should give white people credit for their dramatic turnaround concerning racial attitudes. What say you?

    Shelby has his head up his ass. If there was some great dramatic turnaround, I've completely missed it.

    4. If you're white, do you actually feel guilty because America's racist past?

    Yes. Because I know I've profitted from black people's oppression. Also for me, there's some generational guilt. Some of my ancestors owned slaves. Many of my recent ancestors were horrible racists. Finally, I'm aware of the tremendous damage done by well-intentioned lily white liberals like me, and I try like hell not to be one of those. I don't know how well I succeed.

    5. If yes. How does that guilt manifest itself in your interaction with black people?

    I try not to let it, except to the extent that I try to hold myself back from suggesting anything about what the black agenda should be. Not my business. Beyond that
    I try to not let the guilt manifest because it's generally useless and counter-productive. I want to have relationships with people who are equals. If I'm on the floor begging forgiveness, I can't be equal.

    6. Do you think the black community was better off 50, 100, 150 ago?

    I'm not sure. There was a time when I would have been sure. But I think the civil rights movement moved a lot of virulent racism underground. It may have been less dangerous above ground. At least you knew where it was coming from. You knew to expect it all the time. But I don't think my opinion on this, as a white person, is really relevant.

    7. Shelby believes black people don't know how to live under freedom. What say you?

    I think Shelby has no right to pass such a judgment. I also see no great evidence that white people know how to live under freedom. Is Shelby suggesting that black people would be better off under some paternalistic system where white people would be telling black people how to live under freedom> Because that's just whack.

    8. The theory of white guilt: a) a valid point b) a good way to sell book.

    b) Good way to sell a book. But there is always the hope it will make people think (about how wrong and full of himself he is, and if they're white, the extent to which white guilt effects their lives, and if it's in a positive way), and people thinking about racism is a good thing.

    Finally, I don't think America is making even the vaguest attempt to atone for the western sin of imperialism in Iraq. I think mainstream American still doesn't get that imperialism (cultural or political) is a sin.

    How'd you find this book, James? I'm curious.
  14. Bushwack Says:
    1.What is white guilt and how does it impact the black community?

    Ok James, I’m not a big fan of discussing the race issue so first I’ll give you some background on who I am.
    I went to a predominately black high school, I was one of only 35 white students in the whole school. (Ganesha High in Pomona) we were the first kids bussed from Diamond Bar. I identified with the black students way more than I did with the Hispanic students. The reason was Athletics, (I was the only white starting WR on the Varsity team in my sophmore year) and the Music.
    I endured a lot of “Reverse racism” (ridiculous term) so if there was ever a person that could have developed into a full blown grand wizard of the KKK it was me. Before my junior year things were getting better for me in the school, I had made some good friends and I was looking forward to my football season as a junior. A gang fight broke out in school and my dad panicked and pulled me out and we moved to N.C.
    In N.C. It was the complete opposite, however the lessons that were learned from my time in Pomona were beneficial in my understanding of the “Minority” in my new school. This set me apart from the “Redneck” students. Again I was very athletic and soon found myself around similar friends.
    Now for the “White guilt” question there is none by me, or anyone I know. I have no guilt for anything, and have raised my kids the same way. I take offence to “White Boy” comments just like you would the N-word, I do not see color when I talk to people I see behaviors of the person. I also think that if the black community is still using “The white man” As an excuse for not succeeding its just as bad as when the “White man” uses the Illegal immigrants as an excuse for being out of work. This is my opinion, I’m sure there are cases of it being true however the majority of the time that excuse doesn’t hold water.

    2. Why shouldn't black people have the moral authority when it comes to race?
    This question shouldn’t be phrased in a color context, how about When are Americans going to regain the moral authority.

    3. Shelby states that we should give white people credit for their dramatic turnaround concerning racial attitudes. What say you?
    It is a remarkable feat, in the late 70’s in NC whites that I met seemed to be straight out of the 50’s all they were missing is the white hoods and I’ll bet the wore them on the weekends.
    By the early 90’s the attitudes had been shifted dramatically. (It still exists don’t get me wrong but it is a lot better now)
    4. If you're white, do you actually feel guilty because America's racist past?
    Nope, I am sorry this happened but blame should be placed on the offender, I will not be held accountable for actions I have had no control of.
    5. If yes. How does that guilt manifest itself in your interaction with black people?
    It doesn’t and if it does, someone should question the white person as to why he feels guilty, What did you do?
    6. Do you think the black community was better off 50, 100, 150 ago?
    NO, Look back in history, racism against the blacks was rampant and brutal. The Native American community is far worse off and this was their land.
    7. Shelby believes black people don't know how to live under freedom. What say you?
    B.S,
    8. The theory of white guilt: a) a valid point b) a good way to sell book.
    B, But I’m also pretty sure there are some white people out there that deserve to be guilty. (I am not one of them)

    BTW,Chi Sox look good again this year. (My Angels are stinking up the joint)
  15. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    TO Mahndisa,

    GET OFF OF ME PLEASE!

    Chance: Mahndisa, I delinked you from my blog a long time ago OK! Also every black blogsite you go to and find me commenting there you bring up some negative comment about black people that I never said on that comment section. You bring this up so that other black people and black commenters will start to focus on in a negative way. Because you hate it when I speak with them and not you. You don't want to become blog-friends with these other blacks. You hate the fact that many blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, universities and colleges, online music stores come by my blog and read it. And then copy some of my essays and host them on their websites and blogs.

    Black-America said: Chance, has his own blog and it has nothing to do with Jay Manning’s essay-post on white guilt. You mahndisa come over to another persons blog and start talking about who hate black people. You do this to keep black people distracted with who don’t like them. Just like black leaders often do. You are just using black anger and black paranoia to make us view ol chance in a negative way. His blog has nothing to do with the essay post on white guilt. But you keep talking about him and his blog which is irrelevant. You just trying to make us blacks hate a man who is not harming black people at jay Manning’s blog leave chance alone. You don’t about black people Mahndisa because you try to use our black anger to go after Chance. That’s why you keep saying he hates blacks it is not true and the essay is about white guilt not who hates blacks. You hate blacks not him coming over here trying to start trouble against a man who is enjoying his blog-friends blog. Certain blacks like you always keep blacks distracted with who don’t like them so what you don’t blacks because a person who likes blacks do not take advantage of their anger, inner hurt, and mental pain by keeping distracted and try to make them fight with people whom they don’t even know.

    Mahndisa, get off my jock and leave me alone stop bothering me and harassing me OK! Stop directing your comments at me please you are a female and I am a male. Usually it is the male chasing the female. Leave me alone please you bother me at other blogs also you have a husband, child, which makes family give your attention to them and not me so get the hell off me OK! I have moved on you have not leave me alone please Mahndisa.


    By Chance
  16. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    To Mahndisa,

    COP-OUT JUST TO ANGER BLACKS BY-WAY OF PROXY

    Mahndisa said: You insult me and ALL OTHER BLACK PEOPLE with your inane rants.


    Chance: Mahndisa, I have not talked to you in a long time and I want to keep it that way. You bring up blacks so you can turn them against me this behavior is the behavior of someone who views blacks as being good for nothing but causing violence and negativity so why not use them. You don’t care about blacks lady (mahndisa) you don’t you just do what other people do use them when it is time for negativity so they can get in trouble and go to jail for carrying out your purpose while you remain free. Leave me alone Mahndisa.


    Chance: I was commenting on the essay white guilt never did I attack blacks you are just doing this mahndisa to turn other black commenters here against me. Oh he hates blacks that what this is about nothing more leave me alone stay with your husband and family.

    You just use blacks as a proxy to carry out anger and negativity towards me because you are too afraid to do something that could put you in jail. So you get blacks all upset by telling who don't like them, well many blacks don't like blacks and some have self hatred. So what's new nothing this all about you just wanting to have a reason to exchange words with me but I want you to leave me alone stalker. You have some type of fascination with me and you are not the only female either Jay (James) that’s why I took my picture down and change my name to the best because some other females. Who can not stop bothering, insulting, harassing, and following me around to other websites and blogs directing negative comments towards me because I find them attractive in that way. So I don’t give a lot of attention so I had to change my Identify for awhile until things die down. And this is why Jay (James) you saw me using the photo of the grim reaper and using another name instead my name Chance.

    How the hell did we go from talking about white guilt to commenting about blacks Mahndisa leave us alone please?

    I know what has happened to your technocratic tags situation but because you are negative towards me I chose not to explain it to you. I do know what happened with the technocratic situation it is not what you think and there is something you can do. But since we won’t be talking what’s the use. Leave me alone lady I not interested in type of stuff.



    By Chance
  17. James Manning Says:
    Diane,

    Well said. I think you and Timmer hit it when it ocmes to the guilt part. Some white people do go out of their way not to offend black people but generally that is because they either do not want to be seen as a racist or they feel they should represent white people and show black people that not all white people are racist.

    black people do the same thing. We act a certain way around white people to show that not all black people are ignorant.
  18. James Manning Says:
    Bushwhack,

    The Panthers have it over a lot of folks when it ocmes to their receivers. I will give them than.

    Understanding your background, I can see how you feel the way you feel. Basically, you've lived like black people have lived. As a minority, you had to find a select group of people that accepted you and sports enabled you a way to garner more acceptance. That's black folks.

    As for discussing race. We should discuss it. I've had plenty of discussions on this blog and it is always a good conversation. Not everyone agrees but I honestly think if regular black and white folks discussed it and not leave it to men like Shelby Steele, we would do ourselves a big favor.
  19. Dave Miller Says:
    James, I am just picking and choosing from your list.

    2. Why shouldn't black people have the moral authority when it comes to race?
    Perhaps a better question might be "Why should any race or people group have a moral authority?" And what is the context of your question? Are you asking if a particular race has a right to be pissed off? If that is the case, then yes! But not just black folks. Native Americans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Every non white group in the states has had to struggle against oppression, hatred, racism, etc.

    3. Shelby states that we should give white people credit for their dramatic turnaround concerning racial attitudes. What say you?
    This is a great question. Maybe not credit for a dramatic turnaround, but credit for effort and some real change. Is there still a long way to go? Yes. Can we improve? Yes. Has there been progress? Yes there has. There are millions of white people all over this country who harbor no animosity towards blacks or any other minority. What pisses them off is when they are lumped into a group and told that just because they are white, they are racist. It is as bad as calling a person lazy just because he is Mexican, or a gangster just because he is black and likes rap. It is stereotypical thinking. There is a feeling among white people that no matter what they do in regards to race, it will never be good enough. And maybe it won't, but some recognition that not all white people are, or even ever were racist would be appreciated by a lot of folks.

    4. If you're white, do you actually feel guilty because America's racist past?
    Guilty? No. Pissed off? Yes. Sad? Yes.

    6. Do you think the black community was better off 50, 100, 150 ago?
    Interesting question. There has been a focus on the loss of community for black people, and I believe that is true. But it is not exclusive to black people. The ethnic communities that used to be prevelant in America are quickly dissappearing no matter what your color. They are not what they once were. So if that is your focus, then yes, things are not as good as before. However, if people think seperate drinking fountains, school facilities, etc. were better even 50 years ago, I'd be hard pressed to see it. What about economic opportunity. It wasn't too long ago that the only black executives in this country were John Johnson of Ebony/Jet fame and Barry Gordy of Motown Records. Have some things deteriorated? Yet others are vastly improved.

    7. Shelby believes black people don't know how to live under freedom. What say you?
    This might be too stupid for a response.
  20. Bushwack Says:
    James, I guess you are right I'm probably blacker than most of your readers.....LOL
    Anyway, it is a good discussion and I didn't mean it should not be a topic. I just meant that I generally do not get into these areas.
    You have a good head on your shoulders and I look forward to reading the comments of your readers and your future posts on this topic.
  21. Bushwack Says:
    I do take offence to Dave Millers comment,
    But not just black folks. Native Americans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Every non white group in the states has had to struggle against oppression, hatred, racism, etc.

    Why not the white group also?
    Stereo typing all whites into suit wearing hate mongers is typical.
    There in lies the problem, I was not here during the civil rights marches or the civil war, I never owned a slave, I nor anyone I know have ever "Kept the Black man down"
    I have been on the other side of KKK rallys. It was me holding signs and staring down skin head hate mongers who say they are speaking for the white race.
    I will not be apologetic for what has happened 50+years ago. We must never forget and never let it happen again, but that is all I can do.
    I will not have to answer to our lord for things I have not done so why must I answer to men on earth?
  22. Dave Miller Says:
    Bushwack,

    I am not implying that you have any responsibility for any past stuff. All I am saying, or trying to have said, is that the effects of racism should not be assumed to have happened to only black people. I agree that at some point all of us have been judged, however inappropiately, based on the color of our skin, and in some cases, the color of the skin of those with whom we associate. The level of that is open to debate, but not the reality of it.

    I also did not say that white people are to be lumped together in the hate mongers bin. So if that is how it came across, my bad, and give me a pass.

    Anyways, sorry about the offense. I'm not tryin' to offend another guy from my corner of So. Cal.
  23. Bushwack Says:
    Perhaps I phrased it wrong also Dave, I was not really offended it just seems that if you have dissenting voice on anything anymore and you are a white male right a way the first comment is you must be racist.
    I am a little touchy because of some of the comments I've been getting lately.
    I think the only freedom left in hate mongering is toward christianity and White males.
    This is what is bothering a lot of folks these days.
    it might just be my perception.
    Anyway dave no harm no foul.

    On a lighter note: James, my Angels finally stopped them Chi sox's winning streak last night (8 games in a row they beat the Angels). Any predictions on the World series this year?
  24. Dave Miller Says:
    Bushwack,

    You are absolutely correct on the white view and and I don't how we got there or what to do about it. I know great people who are so afraid of saying the wrong thing and getting into an argument or offending someone that they have almost withdrawn from society.

    I know people and God cannot be good with that.

    Anyways, you can't claim the Angels solely for you. I've been an Angeles fan since early on, (The Bill Rigney days) was thrilled when they finally won, and am totally messed up right now with the fact that they can't seem to hit anything . At least they are in the west where maybe a 500 record will get you in the dance.
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