Conversing with the Christian Right... Good Luck
Classic Repost (first posted on August 2, 3005):
This question was posed to me by Mak Oba from http://duns.thatbitch.com:
…why it is that some of the people claiming conservative views and Christian values would routinely contradict those by "bearing false witness" and not manning (or womanning) up and facing those with disagreeing viewpoints with the confidence that being on the Lord's side "should" bring.
The source of this question comes from a topic on LaShawnBarber.com, which called Islam a cult and terrorist organization. During the course of this discussion, many so-called Christians called for the US to ban the practice of Islam, deport all Muslims who were not citizens and threaten Saudi Arabia with nuclear war if a terrorist attack took place on American soil. The commentors considered such an action a pragmatic approach to the "War on Terror." I and several others say that it is lunacy and in general, racist. During this discussion there were several opposing views that were deleted or amended by La Shawn. It is her blog so she can do what she wants but whenever challenged, many Christians will deflect the criticism by posing questions with loaded catch phrases or resort to name-calling.
It is my opinion that the Christian Right speaking with confidence is not the issue. In fact, they are quite confident in what they say. The problem is that debating is no longer a point, counter-point dialogue but a “stand on conviction”, spewing of talking points, yelling festival. The discourse in American politics is one where tolerance is seen as weakness and intolerance is seen as principled. When polled, Americans said that they admired President Bush’s conviction and that fact that he does not waiver on what he believes (even when clearly shown that he should). Kerry was labeled a flip-flopper because he embraced the nuances creating legislation.
One thing we have to realize is that Christian conservative is at war with American culture. Men like James Dobson of Focus on the Family and Pat Robertson makes this clear every chance they get. To many on the Right, the very principles that make us a great country also represent the source of our inevitable demise. Tolerance, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, a free press and judicial equality is principles the Christian Right say they support but there is a caveat in that support. They support it only when it does not contradict their strict interpretation of the Christian faith or strikes their patriotic cord. The calls for Constitutional amendments to ban flag burning, gay marriage, a return to prayer in schools and an end to abortion as well as the indifference to the problems with the Iraq war shows that the Christian Right is not interested in the principles on which America was founded. They are interested in total domination of American culture and politics.
It is no surprise when debating them that they will ignore the facts so long as they are moving forward on their agenda. When people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson are as popular as they are, it is clear evidence that many on the Right are embracing a fire and brimstone, scorched earth policy with regards to political discourse. Common sense or compromise is not a part of their vocabulary. Their language is loaded and framed by talking points and rarely do they stray away from them. The world of politics have changed and those on the Left must face the reality that they see us as an enemy just as much as they see the detainees in Guantonimo Bay.
So my brother, it is not that they are not confident in what they are saying. It is just they are not caring to hear what you have to say.
12:52 PM I think you handled yourself very well on LaShawn's blog. This is some scary stuff...
2:53 PM It is scary because they are beating down people who do not follow the Party line. There is a reason why they don't like John McCain, Arlen Specter and other moderate Republicans. There is a reason why the term RINO (Republican In Name Only) is so popular. If you are not speaking their speak, you are politically eaten alive.
3:17 PM http://duns.thatbitch.com/crypt/archive-042005.shtml#322
This is how I was feeling back in April. I'm feeling so much more today. I wish that I wasn't human at times so that I could run for office with out fear of being attacked by my past human nature. I am so scared for the future of this planet but for "centuries" Armagedon has been just around the corner. Maybe we truly ARE in the "Last Days"
Mak....no Oba...just Mak ;-)
7:20 PM Oh, brother! If that's how you feel, James, I don't expect to see anymore of your comments at LBC. You people love to criticize and castigate, but you always come back and simply can't stay away, despite what you say among yourselves. But upon your return, James, I may not be so generous in allowing you to participate.
I wish you people spent more time blogging about something more worthwhile than what other bloggers are saying or doing. I can't tell you what a waste of your precious time this is. That's why I'm using some of my own to give you some advice, unsolicited, of course:
If you want to make a mark out here in the blogosphere, make it by creating something of your own instead of criticizing other bloggers. The anger I used to feel about posts like this has been supplanted by pity. There are much, more worthy things to say and do out here than blog about me, for crying out loud.
-- The Real La Shawn Barber, and not the anonymous slob who impersonates me.
www.lashawnbarber.com
7:23 AM Ad hominem attacks and appeal to tradition never make good argumentation. They are considered logical fallicies.
Now that I think about it . . . so is the "bandwagon" agrument: "Everybody else is voting straight ticket . . . . "
8:33 AM La Shawn, I have several points for you:
1. What I do on your site is debate the issues and let my opinion be known. I don't think there is anything I wrote in this post that I haven't written on your site. As a matter of fact, I wrote something to this affect in the post that prompted this.
2. Maybe you didn't take the time to go through my blog, but if you had, you would have noticed that I don't spend a lot of time talking about other blogs other than to link to them. As a matter of fact, take a stroll through my blog and count the number of times I discuss something that is happening on other blogs or your blog in particular. You will find those types of post rare. And while your strolling through my blog, categorize the different subjects and see how many fall under “discussing other blogs”. I create ONE post… count them ONE, with your name and a link to your site and now you think my blog is part of the ‘bash La Shawn” blogfest. Don’t flatter yourself. I like you blog but it isn’t that important to me.
3. The advice, I don't need it and at what point did I criticize other bloggers in my post? In fact, I didn't even mention you other than to reveal the source that prompted Mak to pose a question to me. You seem have taken on a ‘everyone’s out to get me’ mentality and defending yourself where it is warrant.
4. You will not that I am not editing your comment. That's because it is still a free country. Finally, feel free to ban my comments from your blog. I was thrown out of the Prime N’ Tender numerous times when it was the hottest club (and only club) in Argo. I survived; I think I can survive banishment from a blog as well. However, that actually validates what I posted: They are not caring to hear what you have to say.
Have a nice day.
9:36 AM Let the Church say A-Men!
mak
3:49 PM Wow!!!
2:24 PM You know James, as a Conservative Christian, I agree with you on key points in relation to the myopia of the so-called Christian right. In effect so many of us argue for moral totalitarianism framed from the secularization of the evangelical Christian position.
It just won't work. I believe my faith should be expressed in through the democratic system, however I recognize the limitations of imposing my faith on the democratic system. There is a huge grey area that I think many of the neo-con evangelicals overlook in the way the practice politics as Christians.
I think the main thing which has shifted the way I think about politics from an evangelical Christian perspective, is my pro-black positions. You can not be black and not recognize the limits of the neo-con policies. I am still working thorugh the issues.
In regard to those extreme anti-Islamic folks, I actually posted a video blog (I don't know if you peeped it when you swung by) on the 'reverse-jihaders'
http://www.dellgines.com/?p=34#comments
2:35 PM Dell, I saw that and I'm going to check it out over the weekend.
4:07 PM hmm, great post.
7:38 AM I remember this one!
I wish I could bump post up like this on my blog.
8:07 AM I remember this one too - and I stand by my earlier comment.
And I can't stand Dobson or crazy Pat Robertson.
9:27 AM James,
Was this YOU??
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180086,00.html
9:45 AM LOL
I had nothing to do with it.
4:16 PM first of all Merry Xmas and Happy new year to all.
As a practicing Christian, born and raised in an Islamic country (dunno if i'd call myself a conservative christian though :)), I'd like the West to try and learn from what is happening in Islamic countries.
I mean, the treatment of minority groups is appalling, the teaching of hate and violence is rampant and the glorifying of jihad is beyond what you can imagine. A week after Sept 11 there were t-shirts with Laden's photo on it worn by youth of all ages and people were cheering them on the streets. We Christians were taunted constantly
"see what we've done to big powerful America?? Imagine what we can do to you!!"
Learn!! before it's too late.
5:54 PM "...many so-called Christians called for the US to ban the practice of Islam, deport all Muslims who were not citizens and threaten Saudi Arabia with nuclear war if a terrorist attack took place on American soil"
I find it a source of constant astonishment that the Christian Right can be so... well, frankly, UnChristian.
@ La Shawn Barber, get a life! Discussions usually involve two (or more people) with slightly or greatly differing points of view. Enganging someone you disagree with in conversation is a way to build bridges. Someone who completely agrees with you is Not Necessary in your life. You already got that, man. That's why God put other people around - so you might learn from them. Some will teach you what to do; others will teach you what not to do. Sadly some people refuse to learn at all.
Oddly coincidental to this, another commenter on this blog and I have recently corresponded about how much we actually enjoy disagreeing with each other. We do so respectfully and openly. We are willing to learn from each other. This is a thing to embrace when you find it!
Fabulous post James. I still think you should be writing books or making sermons. You got the gift of words, man.
Happy New Year to you and Jamie.