Black Conservatives: I'm Still Having A Problem With Them
Dell Gines has a theory on the black conservative transition. In it he notes that many of the far-right black conservatives were once leftist that faced traumatic event in their lives. He has an interesting theory and one that I think may hold true for a lot of people. I’ve always wondered why so many pimps and hustlers become preachers after a run in with the law or a have a near death experience.
Anyway, I do rant on the post but I wanted to discuss another aspect of the black conservatives. As many of you know, I am know fan of the black conservative movement, even though I do note that there is no monolithic voice within the ranks of black conservatives. There is a noticeable difference between Rev. Jesse Peterson and Joseph C. Phillips. In the blogasphere, there are bloggers like Dell Gines, Cobbs and Booker Rising. Then there are the far-right black conservatives like La Shawn Barber and Michelle Makin. So, I do recognize the differences.
So I’m going to start dealing with the far-right elements of the black conservative movement because they are more closely aligned with the Evangelical, fundamentalist movement in the Republican Party.
The Rant (as posted on Dell Gines’ Blog):
When it comes to politics, in my opinion, black conservatives are dupes. They walk in the church, hand them some money, talk about gays and abortion – while at the same time supporting property right laws that induce gentrification, bankruptcy laws that favor corporations, tax laws that widens the gap between the classes and giving tax incentives to oil companies to build refineries at a time when they are having record profits. Middle class wages are stagnant, poverty is increasing, more people live without health insurance – but I hear black conservatives talking about gays getting married. It is the most idiotic approach to politics that I’ve ever seen and I’m sure I’ll never have any part it. Especially when I have to listen to them talk about how disgusting black people are. I wish I would ever become a Republican and call myself a black conservative.
The Policies:
In todays Los Angeles times there are two articles that caught my attention. Crowded Out by Luxury Lofts, Poor Seek Relief is one article that discusses the resurgence of Los Angeles’ downtown district. Many homes and subsidized housing is being transformed to high-end lofts and condos. This is happening in a lot of cities across the country. Chicago is destroying its infamous projects and scattering residents across the city and suburbs, Philadelphia is seeing an increase demand for property within the city core. The poor cannot find housing without assistance at the very time the government is preparing to cut funding for subsidzed house. Even with over 200,000 people scattered across the country because of Hurricane Katrina, the government is cutting funds. And what are far-right black conservatives discussing? Gay Marriage.
Another article, Life on Finacial Edge to Get Tougher. This article talks about the new bankruptcy law that is to take effect January 1. At the very time middle class Americans are having a harder time paying bills due to rising energy cost, stagnent wages and the rising cost of health insurance. To afford a home, many Americans have to resort to “tricked out” mortgages and interest only loans. The economy is not producing the kinds of jobs that allow working people to support their families. We are losing manufacturing jobs to China and high tech jobs to India. But are far-right black conservatives talking about the policies that created these problems? No. They are talking about the defitiancies of the NAACP and Rev. Jesse Jackson.
The Gist of It:
It is the righeous ingdination of the converted that irks me. In yesterday’s conference, Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson had the nerve to say, "black people can’t govern." Conservatives touted the business credentials of many of their candidates including George Bush. If that is one of the qualifications for good governance, then Richard Parsons (CEO Time Warner) and Ken Chenault (CEO American Express) certainly have some qualification of public office. However, according to Rev. Peterson, Parsons and Chenault, who are both black men, do not have the ability to govern because of the color of their skin. We can then conclude that black Republicans shouldn’t run for office because as Rev. Peterson noted, blacks can’t govern.
It is statements like this that keep me from giving black conservatives any credibility. Again, I recognize that there is a sect of black conservatives that reject the posturing of far-right black conservatives. But like the neo-conservatives have taken hold of the Republican Party, it is the far-right black conservatives that get the shine in the media. And that is not a good sighn in a era when black people should divorce themselves from the two-party system. They might actually get a few converts if they learned not to insult them.
NOTE: There is another problem with the black conservative movement and that is the alignment with the white Evangelical conservative movement. Then there is the fiscal conservatives that promote policies that are a dtertriment to the American enconomy and poverty. I’ll deal with those issues in a later post.
4:11 PM This is an excellent post. I don't understand the far right black conservative movement either.
11:32 PM Peace on That,
We do not govern.... we simply embrace damned near everything that comes down the pipe- I especially abhorr the fascination that blacks on the left have with forms of communism and socialism.
If you want to truly understand black conservatives look at the policies that have left our people dependent upon government programs- look at the attitude your fellow brothers and siters have about having children out of wedlock. There is no shame. To many of our people expect someone else to solve their problems. Black conservatives have simply had enough of the lies and the turning away from the real causes of the problems black people face. They have run out of patience and it shows- there is something fundementally troubling about a poeple that won't manage the basic three things that must be done.
1- house and clothe yourself
2- feed you and yours
3- take advantage of all education
take care
6:22 AM Bold as love,
The policies of the US have prevented us from succeeding. You should look at the below article. White people get affirmative action all the time. Honest people will admit that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/27/AR2005092700484.html
When given the same chance as whites, we succeed. If you knew a little about American history, you would know that every time we have done something significant, white people have destroyed it. Do you not know about Tulsa, or Rosewood, FL., or how the Black Muslim movement had farms that were poisons? This is the problem with you black conservative, you have selective amnesia that allows you to deal with the absurd. Do you know what type of policies that the Republicans are duping on you? I absolutely hate the ignorance that black Republican display. If you want to talk about the policies of the Republicans, I would be all ears. White people have more abortion than any other groups and these things are not being reported. But, you don’t care about any real issues as long as you can denigrate blacks for your white masters.
7:18 AM Black conservatives are who they are. But they're not everything you say they are, and they're not only what you say they are.
You folks have picked out a stereotype of black conservatives as self-hating extremists who are all talk. easy to hate.
You have also decided that the black people whose politics you think are most important are the poor and homeless, the single parents. Not everybody needs to care about that and certainly those people need to handle their own business.
Here's a simple definition for you. Conservative vs Liberal. To the Liberal, the alternative is more important than the standard. To the Conservative, the standard is more important than the alternative. In any area of life, that's the basic formula. Are you all about the oddball or the normal?
Should a baby be born normally, or terminated abnormally? Should it have a married mother and father, or two mothers or two fathers or just a mother? Should you work for money, or should somebody else have a right to the money you make? Should you care more about your country of birth, or other people's countries?
Conservatism is common sense, and only when you realize that when you line up your political priorities and find that all of your energy goes to defend the odd and the strange do you start to realize what a line of bull you've been handed
Why?
Because you have been convinced that black is not normal, and therefore if black is to survive, all the abnormalities of the world must be defended.
Who sold you that lie, and why?
7:33 AM Bold, I think you simply using the talking points and not dealing with the facts that I presented. Under a Republican Administration, poverty has gone up. Under Clinton, it went down.
1. House and clothes yourself - You need a job to do that and we have a govenment now that provide incentives to companies to move jobs to China. There was a time when a man could provide a decent living working in a factory. That is no longer the case. The Republican Party supports illegal immigration because it keeps wages down. Look that the stats - American wages are down.
2. feed you and yours - See my respons to number 1.
3. Take advantage to all education - You are correct here. But our educational system is failing. There is a book called "the World is Flat" where the author points out that Americans are now competing with the world when once we were the economic powerhouse. China is cathing up (because we are sending jobs and technology there) India is catching up (because we are sending high tech jobs there). America is selling itself and will become the Wal-Mart of the world.
Better than me go through this, why don't you explain to me the policies that black conservatives support.
I'll make it easy for you. Three areas:
Taxes
Health Care
Jobs
I have yet to see anything so here is your chance.
8:29 AM Michael, come on bruh, I think black in not normal? Where is the basis for that? I think we can go back and forth all day about the definition of a conservative and a liberal. I've gone through the process of explaining that I am a progressive. You can check that out in my archives.
But I will deal with the questions you raised as I did with Bold as love:
1.Should a baby be born normally, or terminated abnormally? - I am against abortion but the argument is the reproductive rights of a woman and a right to privacy. How much control over a woman's body should the government have? Personally, I think abortion is wrong but if a woman chooses do so - then that should be her right. We allow the government to kill people within a flawed judicial system.
Should it have a married mother and father, or two mothers or two fathers or just a mother? - I think everyone would agree that children do better with a two-parent household. That is what we strive to provide. But reality is that there are single parents through a host of reasons. There are very few people in this country that actually want to raise kids in a single parent home. There are no laws to pass that will change this.
Should you work for money, or should somebody else have a right to the money you make? - Another nice conservative talking point. The fact is that helping the poor is a biblical principle. How we help - well that's up to use to find the best means. That is where we disagree, but America is a very rich nation. And to whom much if given, much will be required.
Should you care more about your country of birth, or other people's countries? - I'm not sure what you mean. We have a policy where we are spending $6 billion a month in Iraq, but cutting programs for the poor at home. We gave Iraq $20 billion to rebuild but cut veteran benefits. We're fighting for a Democratic Iraq but won't pass a law that requires voting machines to print a record of the vote. These are the policies of Conservatives and Liberals are fighting it. So, who really cares about this country?
2:02 PM James you have to remember, 9/1l hit in 2001 and the economy was on decline near the end of Clinton's presidency. So when 9/11 hit it spurred the decline. I think it was under Clinton that many open border free market policies occurred. Also remember, Clinton made some of the biggest welfare cuts and tough on crime legislation occur.
We have to be careful not to blindly play partisanship even if one group or the other does some things that make you hate their guts.
Cobb has a point, we present and attack the far right conservatives that are nut jobs like LaShawn, Starr & Jesse Lee...
But if people like me who ARE conservative and undertand what it means and how to apply it correctly don't attack those fools, then we are just as guilty.
3:33 PM I think Cobb made the point that I'm only dealing with the poor. And that is because the poor have issues that middle class black Americans don't face. Most of our issues falling in line with issue every middle class American families have. Schools, job, wages, taxes ect. It is those that are on the fringes that are most vulnerable and it is on the disproportions that I place my focus.
I have come to recognize the differenct sects within black conservatives but I do like to focus on the far-right because they are the ones getting the shine.
4:32 PM I have to agree with some of what Dell is saying especially the part about the treatment of blacks under the Democratic rule. It is their policies that are responsible for putting black men in jail at these rates. We must address this. This is why I don't think black people should vote straight democratic. We need to vote for whomever will meet our demands.
4:49 PM I agree. But we I am trying to combat is the extreme movement from one Party to the other. Republican run on social issues that black people support but they govern on whims of corporate America - and there are time when those two interest are not compatable.
I actually support some of Dells and Michael Cobbs principles, but I'm not sold on giving my vote to a Republican.
7:12 PM James,
Right now - I can't do it either.
9:08 PM Peace on that,
Naw, it's not talking points- those things i mentioned are serious issues, Michael remarked that it is common sense-I agree. Here is the ultimate test- Whenever a program or policy is suggested-ask yourself if the people who put it forth would want it for themselves or their children. Most of the time the answer is hell no- Why do we allow people to put forth policies that they wouldn't embrace and live by.
Lare'
11:16 AM Shoot James, I am not a publican either. In fact, I was registered for as an independet for 13 years switched to Democrat last year because I wanted to hustle them for some dough when I was going to run for city council, and haven't got around to switching back yet :). Technically, I am still a demoncrat.
5:30 PM Dell, that's funny. Heck, politicians use us for money all of the time. Somebody might as well get a little loot from them.
6:03 PM Then I guess Iam a far right black conservative then. The main reason Iam a black conservative I do not share liberal ideology. To think that all blacks should have one mind set is crazy. Iam a Christian Conservative, a fiscal conservative, and Iam a Social conservative. For all of us to think alike or have the same mindset we might as well become the real life version of the borg on Star Trek. Its good that blacks are conservatives, moderates and even liberals. It goes to show that we can be Individuals and not just a group voting block mind collective.
11:00 PM I appreciate the commentary, and the hilighting of the differences between social conservatives and political / policy conservatives. There is a difference between ideals and the power to enforce or inflict those ideals (policy).
I can also recognize the varying degrees of conservatism. Dell is a conservative, yet I can appreciate many of the points he has made. (I am no conservative by any stretch of the imagination.) On the other hand, farther right conservatives seem to talk along the line of the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rant. And little else.
One observation: Dell and James speak of issues and topics at hand. Republican Brother defends himself, but does so by speaking about ideologies, without specifically addressing the points that have been reposnded to. It seems that some conservatives can't get past prasing the virtues of the ideal long enough to speak - or reasonably debate - on the specifics of the issue at hand. (IE: James responed to republican brother's points - one by one - and the rebutal was more talk of ideology.)
I hear this talk of Blacks not being a monolith, and (some) conservatives / Black republicans talking about being independent thinkers. I believe if we are to move forward in the conversation about policies and politics - as the specifically relate to Black folks - then we must shed the whole "I'm a republican / democrat / progressive / liberal / etc." lables. Talk of issues, not of a party's ideological alliance. We can call ourselves anything we want to, but there's no room for a political label on the job application of both Dems and Repubs are unemployed.
One last thing: That whole "independendent thought" (conservative republican) vs. "follow the leader" (liberal democrat) characterizations of the mindsets of those who follow one group or another is just meaningless name calling that serves as a distraction. There's no such thing as independent thought. It doesn't exist. We all operate and think from the perspective of a particular group. None of use are exempt from this. We just choose different groups and put lables on them.
12:45 AM This is very interesting site... » » »