I Still Like Some Conservative
I’m having a discussion on Robert’s blog that has really tested my will to be considerate to those on the right. What saves my bashing of the entire right is that I happen to really like Robert, Bullfrog, Grey Ghost, Bold As Love and Miss Chatterbox is a true doll.
So, when I run into folks the Texas Fred and GUNZ, I generally try to take their rants for what it is and move on with my life. I think as a Liberal, it is part of my duty to understand their thoughts, reconcile them with my own beliefs then state my opinion. Generally, we disagree and that’s cool with me. But whenever trying to pull someone from the cesspool there is a risk that you could get pulled in as well.
This is what I think happened on Robert’s last post. I tried to come down the middle and use logic in the discussion – and granted my logic does not constitute universal logic – but all in all I think I was being balanced.
Mixing Islam, Liberal ideology and Conservative bloggers is an appetite for destruction. I soon found myself dodging a myriad of threats and names and I tossed a few back myself. If you’ve visited my blog enough, you know I’m pretty tolerant of folks. However, I think the only legitimate reason to wish ill upon another person is when that person dares to root against your favorite football team.
I’m writing this post because I have to remind myself that I do happen to like some Conservatives.
Do you get along with your ideological opposite?
3:21 PM Great comments on Robert's blog. I hold a lot of respect for Robert and many other conservative bloggers out there, but there are a few individuals that completely lack all skills necessary for effective communication.
3:25 PM To Jay (james)
LIberals, Consrvatives, Whites, Minorities, etc
Many conservative whites are afraid at what they are seeing manifesting in America via immigration legal and ill-legal they try to put all of the problems on the Liberals because they loathe (deeply hate) to admit that their own conservative politicians like president BUSH has sold them out. They long for the old conservative loyalty of long ago when conservative politicians obeyed them. They see that their power structure is becoming weaker and they fear what could happen if they become a minority racial groups as whites. This is one of the main reasons for the negativity that you receive at certain conservative blogs. There is almost not difference between conservative and Liberal politicians in washington. What the Liberals what to do for the past 40 years the conservatives made sure the liberal agendas did not happen. Now Conservatives see that their BUSH and other conservative politicians are pushing Liberal agendas like immigration amnesty. Amnesty is what the Liberal Democrats have been seeking for years for ill-legals. But it is the conservatives who are pushing it because they know that minorities will become the majority in the future so they want to be hip also.
Many conservative white can not bring themselves to admit that President bush is a Liberal of the 1980s type. Minoriity conservatives can not maintan or sustain anything that white conservatives or white people in genral create so having minority conservative spells the descruction of the last political party of white conservatives and that is the republican party. It will become a minority driven agenda party just like the Democrats and whites will have to becomse semi second class going along with compromises to support their new found minoity conservatives ethnic groups. This will trigger eventually violence from whites and minorties will fight back because conservatives white will feel marginalized and powerless. Never let these stuff get under ones skin about conservative whites or minority conservatives because it is going to explode watch. Personall I am liberal and conservative so I am a Libero-conservative (moderate). Conservative on business issues and Liberal on social issues.
By Chance
4:04 PM BND, I actually tried to converse with them on the up and up. I didn't call them racist, but I see they tried to accuse me of that. They want to kill all Muslims or label them all as evil threats but then call me an extremist.
I feel you Chance. But you may be giving them too much credit. I think some of them are just plain mean and egocentric.
4:36 PM Do you get along with your ideological opposite?
Nope, never... :)
OK, actually, I usually get along with people who are my idealogical opposite. It all really depends on the attitudes of the other person. There are a lot of obnoxious liberals out there who just continue to parrot the same rediculous talking points no matter how often they are refuted. I could easily live without having to deal with them at all.
OTOH, I have some liberal friends with whom I have rather interesting discussions.
5:47 PM James, I went and read most of the postings you referenced. Rough stuff. On the Muslim side, I am probably not a strongly against Islam as some in the Christian side would want me to be. I do have a question though for those that subscribe to Islam. And yes I know that is not you, even though you were certainly put in that class by a few folks on Robert's blog.
If in fact the majority of Islam is peaceful, why do we only see Muslim clerics living in the US denouncing violence and advocating peace? Isn't it reasonable to expect a few from some majority Arab countries to go public and condemn the violence? Just a question.
And yes, I can get along, and hang with my idealogical opposite. Sometimes I can even learn something from them if I shut up long enough to listen.
7:22 PM James, I just want you to know that after what I had to deal with yesterday with some rabid liberals I am reminded of why you are indeed my favorite liberal. You wouldn't believe what I got accused of yesterday and I almost called you in for back-up so I could have a rational liberal in on the debate. You gave me the compliment of being a true doll and I would give you the same compliment back in whatever the male version of that would be :-)!!
As for Texas Fred he is an equal opportunity basher, attacking conservatives as well as liberals so you aren't alone. Several of us dared to disagree with him and got lambasted. I myself don't consider him a conservative but an angry Michael Savage wannabe. He bashes Bush & Rumsfeld probably more often than you do. Just my 2 cents worth on that subject.
8:17 PM James,
A person being a Liberal does not mean I can not get along with them- besides,Liberals throw great parties.
One thing about the "Peace on that Blog", is it is so much more than a Liberal platform- It is a source of comedic whit- and James Manning actually thinks in depth about his beliefs- you gotta love a brother that does that whether you agree with him or not.
Later'
8:20 PM Thanks Malik, It's a great site to wade through. I'm not convinced, but I am reading.
James, apparently you have been wrong all along. I heard today that Hugo Chavez does not believe Bush is the "Spawn of the Devil" as you have identified him, but rather the devil himself, incarnate. Complete with the smell of sulfer. My favorite part was when he crossed himself after mentioning his name.
You better check your sources!
1:29 AM Hey Jay (James)
Chance: You are right many of the conservatives are just out right negative and mean spirited. There are some good ones but you are right many of them are mean spirited they feel as though they have some entitlement and every one else should be second class. You are right Jay some are just mean spirited.
1:33 AM To Mark
You hit the ball right Mark, blacks should be voting in both political parties so that they can gain influence in bothe parties by doing this we can them work together as Democrats and Republicans and come up with compromises that benefit everyone. It's kinda like the trojan horse strategy.
By Chance
5:36 AM James Manning:
BND, I actually tried to converse with them on the up and up. I didn't call them racist, but I see they tried to accuse me of that.
Roderick: J, that is because 99% of the time conservatives are in projection mode.
You can't have a discussion with them without their reading something into your comments that don't exist.
9:25 AM I think the fact that people label themselves and deal with others according to said labels is a diservice to all of us. I am a registered Republican but that doesn't mean I will vote the Republican party line because that means I am not thinking for myself. As soon as someone gets an inkling that I hold conservative views, the finger pointing starts and folks think they know me like a book without hearing what I have to say.
I am an idealist and believe a good debate is an open sharing of ideas, especially between 2 who are opposed. It also helps if one or both of the people debating aren't only interested in just "being right" and proving the other person "wrong".
This rarely happens unfortunately, but when it does, it is valuable to all involved because they get a full council of knowledge.
10:53 AM I am permenantly removing myself from ever conversing with Conservatives about Islam. It is a futile attempt and as I have found, only stirs them even more.
I don't want to be the cause of someone going postal on their local Mosque.
BF, I think an open exchange of ideas is a good thing when all parties receptive of different opinions and are being honest brokers.
When someone says they believe in killing all Muslim or that Islam is a threat - I can't accept that as a meaningful environment to conduct an honest debate.
11:22 AM James
I've had my own run-ins with Texas Fred in the past and eventually had to delink him. He's on the extreme Right and doesnt handle it well when one disagrees with him, yet to be fair he does (like LMC said) bash Bush and the GOP pretty regularly which in comparison to many liberal bloggers who almost never bash one of their own, does garner my respect.
11:39 AM Mr. Grey Ghost said...
(like LMC said) bash Bush and the GOP pretty regularly which in comparison to many liberal bloggers who almost never bash one of their own, does garner my respect.
Roderick: You just can't help yourself, can you?
11:49 AM It just ain't worth it James. I read the first 15 or so posts on that site and it seems clear that many of those cats are there for the visceral joy of calling names and making threats. It's pretty sad.
People who keep saying that moderate Muslims aren't condemning violence are not looking - or at least, aren't looking past the sources that routinely make that ridiculous statement. But it's all beside the point because it's not like I feel compelled to apologize for that BS anyway. No more than I feel compelled to apologize for every black male on the street who guns somebody down. No more than I feel compelled to ask any Christian to apologize for every sick incestuous Christian group in Idaho.
Most of us can't even speak for everybody on our street, how can a Muslim speak for 1.5 billion people?
11:57 AM And oh yeah, as far as getting along with people goes, I get along with pretty much everyone because I'm not an idealogue. Still, while I think that the whole conservative / liberal dichotomy is flawed, I see lots of good in both sides - along with tons of BS.
In the end I don't like any side more than the other as they both serve a purpose of balance. And that bigger idea - which is exquisitely divine in makeup - is what I love and respect the most about our very being.
5:18 PM I just think that there is a difference between those that are culturally conservative, and CLASSIST.
And I think that the CLASSIST issues is what we disfavor.
6:14 PM Hey James,
Thought I'd pop in and visit your site. 1st time visitor.
As long as I can realize comments for what they are, I can get along with most.
I too dig ms chatterbox, and also have some liberal folks who visit Gawfer on occasion, so thats cool. It does provide balance.
I know you said you didn't want to debate Islam with conservatives; fair enough. I was just wondering if you followed the 2 links I provided on Bushwhacks comments yesterday.
BTW, I wish I coulda picked up Mus Muhammad as a fantasy football receiver this year. I didn't get any Bears, but I still got a good team.
9:31 AM Gawfer,
Welcome. Muhammad is going to have a great season. I didn't get any Bears on my offense but I did get some solid defensive players.
As for debating with conservatives. I don't mind it but I've learned to stay even keel when conversing with them. I have to take my digs at them but I do that with everyone.
10:58 AM Fair enough...
Go Raiders :)
7:04 PM Ok James, Me being the catalyst of this "Debate" "Discussion" or whatever.. I had to work so I didn't get a chance to participate in it much. I didn't feel that I was one sided in my response to you. If it was took that way, that was not my intent. I have had enough interaction with you to know your tone. Some have not. The word used "Cowards" was not very well recieved and IMO started the 'Clash" of diggs. When I wrote that piece, I was angry, the Pope's comments "quotes" really invoked the real problem IMO the need for everyone to tip toe around the truth to prevent a "Muslim reaction" however it is perfectly acceptable to say anything you want about Jesus, christianity, or jews.
Anyway If i'd have thought that it would be such a hot topic I'd have posted it when I could be around to moderate it better.
You know where I stand and I've made it very clear that I will take a more moderate view, if the pack of wolves known as radical islam gets brought in line by their own.
The Jews, christians and the catholics did it, It's time for the Muslims to do it too.
We can agree to disagree, I have always told you, we would.
Gawfer??? Raiders? Are they still in the league?