Human Capitol: Muslims and Mexicans Left Behind

Part I: Mexico vs. Japan

Chance posted on the difference between Japan and Mexico and questioned why Mexico, with abundant natural resources is a second world country while Japan is a first world country. His premise that Japan invested in human capitol i.e. education and advanced technical skills, while Mexico relies on exploiting its resources and maintaining a divide on developing its citizenry.

Mexico's economic system is based on exploitation of resources and labor. When Mexico signed the NAFTA deal they made they didn't have to comply with safety and worker rights regulations. They knew that American corporations were out to scrape the bottom of the barrel and Mexico provided those barrels. The problem is that they never took into account other merging markets and they never took the opportunity to develop its workforce with more education and advanced technical skills.

So when China emerged and the new "go to guy" for cheap labor, Mexico now found itself not only competing with a country that had cheaper labor, but also had a more educated workforce.

There are dozens of factories on the American/Mexico borders that closed because of China. What does Mexico do now; they export their uneducated workforce to the US. They maintain a political structure that ensures poverty for most of their citizenry. The world is advancing and I believe Mexico is fast becoming a 'tweener': Lower that second world but not yet a third world.

Part II: Muslim’s Intellectual Genocide

Notwithstanding Muslims incoherent hatred for Jews and all things western, they have an issue that goes far beyond extremist and the bastardized version of Islam they teach. Many Muslim nations do not comprehend that progress requires the development of human capitol. Afghanistan depends on the export of opium for survival. Because they choose to stunt the development of half its citizenry (women) and insist on living under tribal rule, they have ensured third world status for themselves.

Saudi Arabia and Iran are essentially third world nations with riches from oil. However, both countries still maintain and rigid and oppressive interpretation of Islam that hinders the development of large segments of their population. They fuel the extremist they direct their rage outward so that the existence of Israel and American influence is the cause of all of their grief.

The power brokers of Islam do themselves an the followers Islam a disservice by perpetuating the myth that Western culture is the reason for their condition. There are many Muslims living in America, practicing their faith and still thriving in a society that believes that ultimately, the responsibility of one’s soul rest with the individual, not the state. No state, culture, religion or philosophy can survive when part of its premise is an never-ending state of war.

Part III: The destruction of Islam

And this leads to my though of Americans calling for the annihilation of all practicing Muslims. Better yet, the following is comment I left on Bushwhack’s blog regarding this very issue.

I have a question. There is an estimated 2.8 million practicing Muslims in this country. Los Angles has the largest Iranian population of any city after Tehran. If you really believe that Islam and anyone practicing it should be consider the enemy and wiped from the face of the earth, then why don't I see Americans ridding this country of the Muslims that are easily accessible.

There are Mosques everywhere in Los Angeles. You could all arm yourselves and come on down to Los Angeles - just go over to Beverly Hills because that's where they shop - and you could pick off at least a 100 before the police even intervened.

Don't get me wrong, I there are some serious cultural issues with Muslims and I actually address them in today's post. But talk like this reminds me of what's going on in Uganda.

There are men there that believe in the total destruction of other tribe. But rather than do it themselves, they kidnap teenagers and force them to commit the massacre. The same concept here, we talk and encourage and hope that Israel and US soldiers take no mercy and kill at will and without mercy - while we sit comfortably knowing we'll never have to actually participate in the carnage. So I'll believe this is more than talk when I see you guys get up and take back west Los Angeles, with the corpse of Muslim men, women in children on display down Wilshire Blvd.

Final Thought

Whether by economic or religious means, the exploitation of the human condition is a tragedy that is now coming home to roost on the American psyche. Although the genocidal mentality I cannot condone, there is a justifiable reason for concern. We are in a perpetual state of philosophical and economic warfare. The failure on our part is not recognizing that at times, we are will participants.

American corporation exploit labor conditions around the world and our only response is to the stock price and price tag. We support repressive regimes for our economic interest and fund ‘the enemy of our enemy’ even when the enemy of our enemy is also our enemy.

It is a crazy world and nothing is easy. But Americans seem stuck on one phrase ‘The world changed after 9/11.’ It makes for a nice bumper sticker but it doesn’t come close to the reality that the world did not change at all after 9/11. No, America was forced to remove its rose colored glasses and forced to deal with the ugliness of reality.

 

59 Responses to Human Capitol: Muslims and Mexicans Left Behind

  1. Bushwack Says:
    James , the comment left on my blog, was out of context, I didn't advocate the elimination of Islam, I simply asked for the contributions of muslims vs Isaeli's and I did advocate the elimination of hammas,hezbolla and al queda as well as all islamic extremist. IMO, The world would be better off without islam.
    Do I want to go out and kill innocent women and kids? Be real man that is not me. and you know that.
    The assholes at CAIR should get out and let folks see exactly where they stand, Can't have it both ways anymore.
  2. James Manning Says:
    Granted Bush, the conversation has taken a turn but you guys may not be like this but there are that are.
  3. Cynthia Says:
    Man, this is one twisted post...
  4. bold as love Says:
    James,
    You are out there on this one. I ask you, is it exploitation, or is it doing business? And how is it America's fault that other countries do not invest in their people? If Mexico leaves it's people uneducated and without rights then how is it immoral for American companies to pay them low wages- I mean it's not like they are going to pay them more than they are paid in their own country, by their own business'. That in itself would undermine Mexico's own internal economics.
    So, where does this leave us, right where we are. There is one solution and that is to stop allowing the flood of unskilled labor into this country and perhaps then the Mexican government will have to do something for it's people. Maybe.
    As far as islam is concerned, my research has convinced me that Islam is not and never was a religon of peace- it has always been spread by the sword. Always.
    Later'
  5. mark Says:
    @ Bold: As far as islam is concerned, my research has convinced me that Islam is not and never was a religon of peace- it has always been spread by the sword. Always.
    Later'


    Mb: Statements like these are why I stay as far away from all religions as I posibly can. The aparthied south was a christian society look how they treated black people.

    In fact the Klan use to burn crosses and pray at their meetings. While expousing a doctrine of hate (how christian). Lets not forget that the guy who wrote amazing grace once was the captain of a slave ship. Or how about the slaughter of muslims in the balkans by orthodox christians. So Christians can kill and enslave people and they are a religion of love. In fact if I recall correctly didnt the catholic church convert mexico and large portions of s. america by the sword? So christianity can pull of these and other sorts of immoral capers and still be considered a religion of love and peace. However other religions cant get this sort of pass. All religions say things like this It makes me sick to my stomach. Pure hypocrisy.

    Those are the types of christians that drove me out of the church over 10 years ago. In fact here is are some photos from the christian south in 1916 of your good christian americans burning Jesse Washington alive
  6. bold as love Says:
    Mark,
    With the exception of God instructing the the children of Israel to wipe out certain cities on their march into the promised land, the Bible does not instruct people to convert through force or guile- All those examples you listed where people that called themselves christians- not christians living their faith.

    Christianity has been used in the past to oppress, enslave, and perhaps somebody is using it now to do those things-But the ible does not demand those things as opposed to the Koran- Osama Bin Laden was simply carrying out the Koran's instruction-As a Muslim he is without sin- don't believe me- read the book for yourself.
    Later'
  7. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
  8. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    To Jay Manning

    ON WAR, HURRICANES, MOTHER NATURE, REALITY AND AMERCIA

    Jay Manning Said: It is a crazy world and nothing is easy. But Americans seem stuck on one phrase ‘The world changed after 9/11.’ It makes for a nice bumper sticker but it doesn’t come close to the reality that the world did not change at all after 9/11. No, America was forced to remove its rose colored glasses and forced to deal with the ugliness of reality.

    Chance: 1. You are very correct Jay (James) the world really did not change after 9-11 all that happened was that America finally was forced to experience what the world -- and other countries had been experiencing for years as a reality. And that is terrorism, international violence from a foreign group of individuals, thousands killed, etc that’s all. 2. Also during Hurricane Katrina America again was forced to see another reality the power of nature over humans. The tsunami that killed thousands of people in South east Asian scared many Asians living in that part of the world but they are use to being scared of mother nature. She attacks all the time with tsunamis, floods, earthquakes, etc so it was scary for them but nothing new. Hurricane Katrina introduced America to the third world hurricanes and the destructive power of Mother Nature. And look how it happened all of those lives lost and lives ruined. Also just like many people in the third world many of the people in New Orleans chose not to leave despite the warning and look what happened. Hurricane Katrina showed America a reality that Americans are use to seeing only on television, The Hurricane and Mother Nature showed America that you are just as vulnerable as people in the third world. What a powerful reality Americans encountered with Hurricane Katrina. 3. Iraq and War well the invasion of Iraq was suppose to be an easy but those terrorists are showing America’s military a lesson in guerrilla warfare and they are making the American military look weak the Chinese are probably thinking if America was Fighting china America would have been
    Conquered and defeated by now. The reality is this that America is learning that we are not all powerful when it comes to military because if a group of third world terrorist insurgents are killing American soldiers constantly and demoralizing America’s military. What if America was fighting a powerful military like China or North Korea?

    You are right Jay America was forced to finally remove the rose colored glasses and she the world as it really is.


    By Chance
  9. The Best [ Ghostface ] Says:
    To Jay Manning

    The Chinese government sees the world as it is and the American government sees the world as they want it to be. And look at which government is progressing faster economically and taking over yes the Chinese. America and its allies are headed towards war with China and Muslims it things keep going the way they are going China and Muslims will win that war.

    By Chance
  10. Bullfrog Says:
    @Bold: you took the words right out of my mouth.
  11. James Manning Says:
    Bold,

    I don't say that Mexico problem is our problem. What I am saying is that Mexico's problem is that they've based their economy off the exploitation of their natural resources and ensuring that a segment of their population does not devlop. that's not our issue, we just happen to use to our benefit but America is not responsible for it.

    As for Islam, I'm not one to toss aside any culture. To each his own but I do know that people use religion for their own means and that's what's going on there.
  12. Bushwack Says:
    James, You are probably one of the more level headed folks that I've had the pleasure of meeting.
    If Israel finishes this conflict on their north and south, the US and allies took this thing to the next logical level (Syria/Iran) our world could have a chance for peace, This is not an easy sollution, this is the only sollution IMHO, all of the fighting up until then is training and intel. Israel is the catalyst for a conflict that must be seen to conclusion. again IMO.
  13. mark Says:
    @ bold

    mb: Yo bold do you think it matters to people bieng persecuted in the name of christianity whether or not the bible sanctions said persecution. Ill be honest thier are things about Islam I do not like, mainly how they treat thier women, I also despise the fundementalist strain responsible for terror and other backwards practices. But Christians and people claiming to be christians have engage in extremely backwards behavior as well.

    Do you think it mattered to a slave in christian america whether or not the bible sanctioned slavery.

    Do you think it mattered to the thousands of muslims slaughtered in the balkans or during the crusades that the bible didnt agree with this behavior. I dont think it matters to a person being murdured in the name of religion whether or not the murderer is sincere about that religion. Also Islam is a couple of hundred years younger than christianity has it occured to you that maybe in 150 the world may be free of muslim terrorism?

    Anyway your response still does not answer why christians can murder and christianity still be considered a religion of love and peace. But Islam cant.

    Also I dont know if you christians got the memo but thier are millions upon millions of muslims who do not agree with the terrorist. Bold nothing against you sir, but your first comment on this post was hypocritical.
  14. Bullfrog Says:
    The Koran TEACHES that everyone must be killed or converted, Christianity does not.

    Just because someone says they are a Christian, then does something evil, does not make all Christians or Christianity, or the Bible evil.

    Using the same logic, some guy who works at 7-Eleven goes on a killing spree, so I vow never to buy another Slurpee again because 7-Eleven is EVIL! Sound ridiculous? That is because IT IS.

    Mark, the only reason you constantly draw erroneous comparisons between Islam and Christianity is because you are not familiar enough with either to be involved in a debate on the subject. Find something else to talk about.
  15. Bullfrog Says:
    James: I don't equate Islam with culture, although some cultures obviously sprang from it's doctrine and traditions, so I don't think being critical of one's religious beliefs is unfair or wrong. In fact, as Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and all who really follow the teachings of the Koran are our sworn enemies, it probably deserves some attention and analysis, don't you think?
  16. I'd like to add Says:
    Iran and Saudi Arabia are in many ways very different countries. Iran is far from a Third-World country. Half of Iranian University students are women. Though that doesn’t negate some of the more archaic and degenerate practices of their national culture and leadership, the Iranian people (mostly Persians and Azeris) are different from the Arabs of Saudi Arabia.
  17. mark Says:
    In fact, as Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and all who really follow the teachings of the Koran are our sworn enemies, it probably deserves some attention and analysis, don't you think?


    You guys are unbleivably ofensive. Your spreading the BS on pretty thick. Rule # Whatever, ever why I stay as far away from all religion as humanly posible. Thank god Im free from such Non Sense.

    P.S I wish thier were some muslims here to be elevated by such lofty spiritual philosophies. NOW LET ME GO PUKE.
  18. Diane S. Says:
    There's a lot I'd like to say here, but mostly I don't feel adequate to the task. I'm not sure things are this black and white, though I think you made some very valid points.

    I pride myself on being someone who embraces multiculturalism, but I cannot accept the Muslim treatment of women. I cannot turn a blind eye and say, "That's okay. It's part of the culture." It's not okay.

    I will also say that The Best reflected my thoughts on the wakening of America beautifully. In my lifetime there have been two times I have sat transfixed to a television screen almost unable to believe what I was seeing. The first was 9/11, the second was July 29, 2005 and the days that followed. Watching what happened to the people of New Orleans caught me completely off guard. It enraged me. I wanted to KILL people over what was going on.

    As we sit at the precipice of a possible World War, I am unsure of anything except a) Bush is an idiot; and b) I hope there is some way - by hook or crook - to save the peace. What little there is left. Because if this thing blows, all bets are off.

    May God have mercy on us all.
  19. mark Says:
    May God have mercy on us all.


    Mb: Amen to that
  20. Shavonne Says:
    This isn't meaningful but I thought Detroit was the Muslim capital of the USA? I've lived in Cali just about all my life and the Muslims (female) I met were skanks. Detroit has the real deal.

    Bible vs. Koran-I think it's a matter of interpretation. Give me the page number/verse in the Koran that advocates the killing of anyone that's not Muslim and I'll agree Islam is not a religion of peace. Of course, I think Islam is a religion of nonsense, but I think that of all religions. Believe in God and nothing else.

    Japan vs. Mexico- I thought that was a good comparison. Japan's investment in its people i.e., education, skills will pay off. Heck if China keeps up they will be able to wipe the floor with American asses in the next generation.
  21. mark Says:
    Of course, I think Islam is a religion of nonsense, but I think that of all religions. Believe in God and nothing else



    mb: Thank you Shavone for that beautiful smack down of intolerant religous folk. I love when religion gets smacked around, espcecially those that proclaim thiers above all else while casting other religions down as not being relevant. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
  22. James Manning Says:
    BF

    I have to disagree with you here. You say the Koron teaches Muslims to kill. If that were the case, why aren't more Muslims in America killing us? It's probably because they don't interpret the Koran in that fashion. Just as many of us don't interpret the Bible to sanction men having more than on wife. We don't interpret the Bible to conclude that black people are cursed - but there are some that do. So who's right?

    Christians have killed many in the name of God. I'm sure there are many Muslims followers that would disagree that they are sanctioned to kill non-Muslims.

    Just as there are Christians who wouldn't sanction walking around a city seven times, waiting for the walls to fall then enter the city slaughter every man, woman and child. But I'll bet you there are Christian that believe in the death of non-christians.

    Islam has a problem with extremist - we have to deal with them. But I can't dismiss Islam and say that it is a religion that should not exist.
  23. mark Says:
    Yo James even though I am committed anti-religion I find some of the comments made by certain bloggers about Islam to be well beyond RETARDED IN THOUGHT as well as extremely offensive. Even though I think all religion is bogus I defend religous folk right to believe whatever they choose to beleive as long as they dont harm anyone or try force thier religion on me.

    If a muslim or Jewish individual had made similar remarks about christianity they would have been up in arms. Also isnt it strange that christians can interpret the bible any way they want to some stuff literal some stuff symbolism but Muslims cant do likewise with the Koran.

    Question to the Non Religous folk has anyone noticed that religion seems to influenced otherwise smart, rational, and brilliant folk to say things that are beyond stupid, Offensive and extremely insenstive?
  24. Bullfrog Says:
    @Mark: you make assertions ALOT without explanation, please be more specific.

    Here is a verse out of the Koran that advocates attacking Christians and Jews specifically:

    Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (Sura 9:29).

    Does this sound like people who want to hold our hand and convert us to their "religion of peace"?

    The Holy Bible contains no such doctrine of violence. I ask anyone this: If the Koran and The Bible are in direct opposition on this point, is it just a matter of interpretation?

    Logically, our choices are as follows:

    1. One of these doctrines is true.
    2. They are both lies.

    We cannot conclude that they are BOTH RIGHT, it defies logic and reason to do so. Any thinking person must make a choice here, and cannot commit intellectual suicide in the spirut of fairness or political correctness.
  25. mark Says:
    There are certain bloggers who are trying to provoke me into smacking them around. After years of counseling I had to learn that even though certain closeminded bloggers may attempt to provoke me into an aggressive show of blogging no one can get punished unless I take steps to punish them.

    If I know that a certain blogger or (group of bloggers) are weak and defensless on a particular subject or just weak and defensles in general it is on me THE SUPERIOR, MORE EXPERIENCED AND OBVIOUSLY MORE TALENTED BLOGGER to restrain myself punishing those who No not what they blog.

    In fact my therapist gave me a technique to use so as not to crush defensless and silly bloggers every time they blog something really stupid. Im going to use.

    I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around, I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,I will not smack weak and close minded bloggers around,
  26. mark Says:
    I feel so much better. Whew
  27. Bullfrog Says:
    @mark: Wow, James is probably getting tired of you and I bickering back and forth on his blog, however entertaining it may be. Let me just say that I presented my argument to everyone reading NOT JUST YOU.

    Anyone who reads ANY of our exchanges can see that you constantly condescend to me as if I do not know what I am talking about, yet, you have yet to actually present a lucid argument, just alot of assertions and conjecture.

    The last thing I did was present the point that the Koran and the Bible cannot be deemed "the same, just interpreted differently", along with excerpts from the Koran which prove my point so all you have to do is explain why I am wrong by:

    1. Quoting the Scriptures where it teaches to combat non-believers.

    2. Give some example of biblical doctrine condoning violence.

    3. Just say ANYTHING except, "Hey everybody, look how awesome Mark is!"

    There, now I have made it easy for you, although, by your own estimation, you CERTAINLY don't need help from the likes of me.

    I grow weary, can you give me the number to that therapist you mentioned?
  28. James Manning Says:
    Actually,

    I enjoy you guys going back and forth - but I may need to see a thearpist about that :)

    BF, I just don't know enough about the Koran to make any defense on what you say. I can only conclude that with 2 million Muslims in the country and no religious warfare to speak of, then it must be a matter of interpretation as to the violence against non-Muslims
  29. James Manning Says:
    BF,

    Here is another text from the Koran:

    (Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 190-194)
  30. James Manning Says:
    Then I read this:

    (They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.) (An-Nisaa’ 4: 89-91)
  31. James Manning Says:
    BF,

    I'm looking at some of the other quotes people use against Islam and if you read the entire text, I don't get how one could assume that it is a religion of war.

    I'll post more in a second. But like many Christians do with the Bible, they take one verse from one book and interpret it to fit their agenda. I'm sure Islamic extremist are doing the same.
  32. mark Says:
    Anyone who reads ANY of our exchanges can see that you constantly condescend to me as if I do not know what I am talking about


    @ BF: Yo BF Im sorry if you felt like I have been constantly condescending towards you. You must understand that nothing I have blogged concerning this particular article that James wrote was directed at you. My comments were only directed at those who are

    Closemindedness
    Insensitve
    Willing to give thier own beliefs the benifit of the doubt but not others
    And folks who say really stupid things because of religion

    Of course you have never done any of these things so I couldnt posibly be talking to you.
    As for me acting like you dont know what your talking about...........................................Bull Frog Im shocked that you would accuse me of such a thing. what on god's green earth ever gave you that impression, I never even adressed you on this last post. Perhaps you fell guilty about something and need to take communinion or go to confession. As for the # to my therapist, you dont need to get from me because I got it from you.




    BF:We cannot conclude that they are BOTH RIGHT, it defies logic and reason to do so


    mb: As far as Im concerned both are bogus, along with every other religion made up by man.
  33. Bullfrog Says:
    @Mark: Why is the Koran bogus?

    or

    Why is the Bible bogus?
  34. mark Says:
    Here are some instances where god gets down brings his vengance hand down upon man.

    Numbers 16:49 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    49Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that
    died about the matter of Korah.



    Numbers 16:27-33 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain



    27So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little children.

    28And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.

    29If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.

    30But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

    31And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:

    32And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

    33They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.


    Kings 20:29-30 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain



    29And they pitched one over against the other seven days. And so it was, that in the seventh day the battle was joined: and the children of Israel slew of the Syrians an hundred thousand footmen in one day.

    30But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; and there a wall fell upon twenty and seven thousand of the men that were left. And Benhadad fled, and came into the city, into an inner chamber.


    Does this sound like a religion or a god of peace to anyone out thier???????
  35. mark Says:
    @ Bull Frog


    mb: Yo BF all religions ever invented are bogus as far as Im concerned. They are bogus because all of them claim to be the ultimate truth. Most of them claim that the only way to salvation is through thier particular truth.


    The only thing they have to prove that thier religion is the ultimate truth is thier holy document. So you have more than one group with conflicting truths claiming thier truth has dominion over all other truth. But yet and still thier are thousands of different religous beliefs out thier.

    My logic tell me that if god were going to hand a religion down to man, and man was only supposed to follow that 1 particular religion, then god wouldnt not allow any other religions to exist and thus confuse HIS truth. But to get even more jiggy with it, why would god allow more than one religion to go around proclaiming itself as "THE ONLY RELIGION LEADING TO SALVATION" this makes know sense.

    Why would god knowingly allow lies(other religions) to be circulated amongst man if he wants everyone to follow his word to salvation?

    P.S Having denounced all religions as bogus I fully admit that without religion the world would be a much worse place. So while I understand that religion has a place amongst all civilized peoples I do not believe that any religion is an accurate account of the way the world unfolded.
  36. Bullfrog Says:
    The God of the Bible is a God of Peace, Love, Mercy, and also Judgement, when appropriate.

    Think of a police officer sitting idly by while someone gets robbed. Does his unwillingness to act make him peaceful, or is he still a "Peace Officer" if he runs down the robber, tackles him to the ground and handcuffs him, taking him to the slammer?

    The people God judged in the verses you quoted were deemed lawbreakers who deserved punishment, and that is what they got. This was not to the detriment of those who witnessed it, but their benefit as they could avoid the same punishment by doing what was right.

    As to your belief that God could not or should not allow more than one religion to enter our culture, as it could cause confusion and lead people away from the absolute truth, I believe He allows false religion so that we would be earnest seekers of the truth and be able to discern truth from lies. That aside, you have said more than once that you believe in God, just not religion. If your god is to be believed, would that god be confined to our logic, or to what we think is fair?

    You are absolutely correct in saying that the ONLY thing that every religion has to validate what they follow is their doctrine. So anyone who wishes to invalidate a religion, must attack the written words of that religion. So I ask the question:

    Why is the Bible NOT the absolute truth?
  37. I'd like to add Says:
    After reading the comments here, I am astonished by the generalized and broad talk about both Christianity and Islam.

    Either the bible or the qur’an can be used to massacre people. None of us need to point out examples; most of us have at least heard of 9/11 (Islamic terror) and the Crusades.

    But what puzzles me is that there seems to be little discussion about the actual principles of either religion AS THEY ARE TAUGHT THROUGH THEIR RESPECTIVE TEXTS.

    Without addressing the actual religious texts, their historical context and how they have evolved/degenerated/resurrected themselves over the centuries… the discussion takes on a Fox-Newsish quality.

    By the way… Mr. James… if you haven’t already seen it, seek out a documentary called: “Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism” www.outfoxed.org/

    I think you’ll at least get a kick out it.
  38. mark Says:
    @ BF

    He allows false religion so that we would be earnest seekers of the truth and be able to discern truth from lies


    mb: What about places were thier is no christianity. How can those folks descern that christianity is the truth, when thier is no christianity. To give you an exaple thier was no christianity on Jamica, bermuda, st. thomas, ect before europeans got thier before the 16 hundrends. So they would have had thier native beliefs whatever they may have been.

    Before the 1600's natives of the carribean Islands had no access to the truth (bible). Why should these folks go to hell for not believing in christianity when they had no concept of before the europeans got thier 500 years ago. This makes no sense to me
  39. mark Says:
    @ I'd like to add said



    mb:Yo I agree with you 100%. Im the man fighting for religous tolerance where thier is very little. Reason # whatever-ever why I stay as far away from all religions as posible. Especially intolerant religions.
  40. Bullfrog Says:
    What you say is only valid on the premise that God is not available to be found for those who are earnest. I am not willing to make this assumption, in fact, I believe He has gone a long way to give all of mankind opportunity to acknowledge that we have a Creator who we should be interested in knowing. Even as far as sending Jesus to live 33 years, never sinning, being crucified and ultimately rising again purely for our benefit. That is quite a statement, wouldn't you say?
  41. James Manning Says:
    i'd like to add,

    I believe I've tried to add some context to this debate. Men will interprest text to mean what they will and to forward thier agenda - but there if we take the basic principles of the bible, koran or any other religious text, we will notice that they all seek to guide people towards a life that is good and healthy.

    Where we really part ways is how do we get to heaven.
  42. Bullfrog Says:
    The basic fact of the matter is, and this is what I have been trying to get at, is that there are fundamental differences between religions. Some similarities, yes, but the differences can not be ignored responsibly. The ecumenical view of religion where "all roads lead to the same God" crumbles under logic and reason.
  43. mark Says:
    The only reason why I put the bible text there was to show them the many instances in the bible where god eithers or allows those to be killed.

    I take none of that stuff seriously. Although I do admit a plague could represent very real diseas so the bible could and may actually be based and or inspired by actual events of past times

    But to say that it is the truth above others is something I dont by. Ill be honest I am not feeling some things about Islam such as the way they treat women, and this sectarian thing. But to say that Islam is a religion of war because a few Islamic fundelaminstist are behaving abominably is over the top in my oppinion.

    So in interest of combating certains bloggers Rhetoric I showed instances in the bible where god either killed or allowed scores of people to be killed. Along with some of the fierey rhetoric.

    I respect a christians right to believe their religion but when you judge another religion with a standard you dont apply to your own . Then use that standard to say that thier religion is invalid and not a religion of peace I get really really annoyed.
  44. Bloviating Zeppelin Says:
    I'm sorry, I simply do NOT believe that Islam is a religion of peace and understanding. I have begun to cease tempering my comments about "Islamists" and "Militant Islam" and enfolding them all under the heading of Islam as I judge a religion not by what it simply says, but by what it says and DOES -- or in the case of Islam, DOESN'T do -- such as having a sea of upstanding clerics stand up in public and DENOUNCE violence.

    I agree with your last paragraph insofar as America has not seen what was written on the wall -- we chose to ignore so many events until we were proffered with an event we simply could NOT ignore.

    And even then I wonder if we have the internal fortitude to save our own country.

    BZ
  45. Bullfrog Says:
    Mark: you are not even having the same discussion we are anymore. You continually make the same (invalid) assertions over and over with no tangible proof that what you are saying is valid. What your mind can dream up is interesting certainly, but the crux of a good debate, definitely not.

    When you rely on reason, and reason alone, to decide who God is and what He is allowed to do, you become a god unto yourself.

    God is our creator and has the supreme right to require of His creation that we worship and glorify Him in a prescribed fashion. He also has the right to put in writing what He requires and all religions, without exception, believe the writings that they have are THE way. I think everyone can agree that this is the case.

    Where we seem to part ways is where I believe that the differences between each religion should be carefully analyzed, alot of folks believe it is all the same and that any differences are really inconsequential and simply a matter of "interpretation". To me this is irresponsible and I can not, as a matter of conscience, take this view. If what we want is to understand who our Creator is, we must do it with our eyes wide open and be diligent in our studies and research so that the gold nuggets of truth may be found amongst the lies and deception that is there to lead us astray.
  46. mark Says:
    The fact is this, most people who were born christians stay christians, most born muslims stay muslims, and so and so forth. The fact is Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe thier faith is the truth.

    All of these religions have scholars who search and study thier religon, other religions, and other spiritual philosophies.

    Generally speaking I see no reason to put any more validity in what you claim is true as opposed to what a muslim or Jewish scholar say's and believes is true.

    Ive had the similar conversation with muslims who claim that they have documentation that Islam is true and christianity is not. I lit them up the same way I lit you up all towards defending christians or any other groups right to believe what the consider to be truth.

    You are a Zealot and to be honest I think you are fool. Because you take passages out of context which you say prove Islam is not a religion of peace, but when I present passages from the bible that show god killing scores of people you use a different standard to judge Islam than Christianity.

    No matter what you say about Islam thier are millions and millions of muslims who live thier lives every bit as peacefully and righteously as christians. Its totally unfair to call thier a religion not of peace, when the bible has just as much violence in it as the Koran.

    Having said that and because you seem hard of hearing I think Christianity and Islam were invented. Period. As far as Im concerned niether one has proven any validity over the other.

    P.S You seem to have forgotten that James refuted some of your nonsense about Islam by providing a little context about you reserve only for your religion.
  47. Bullfrog Says:
    So instead of being a thinking person, you choose to ride on the backs of scholars from all religions and James Manning. Your assertions are incredible and undefended by facts yet you claim, once again, that you somehow "lit me up".

    Prove that Christianity is as violent, or more violent than Islam. You cited Bible verses that describe wars, while I cited verses in the Koran that teaches its people to commit violence against non-Muslims. Do you see the difference?

    I have said this before, showing me a violent Christian and a peaceful Muslim DOES NOT prove Christianity is violent. Show me a passage of scripture from the Bible that teaches people to attack non-Christians.

    As far as my "nonsense about Islam" here is a quote from you on this very blog that proves you agree with me that Islam is NOT a religion of peace:

    "As far as islam is concerned, my research has convinced me that Islam is not and never was a religon of peace- it has always been spread by the sword. Always."

    As I have also previously asserted, my belief that the Bible is more valid than any other religious writing is based on it's reliability as a historical document.

    You can crush me by proving the Bible contains ONE contradiction, or ONE difficulty that cannot be reconciled through research or that it is NOT reliable historically.

    Again, I am telling you exactly how to silence me, all you have to do is execute. Or will you move on to something else and never finish, kinda like our little discussion on James' previous blog?
  48. mark Says:
    @ Bf

    "As far as islam is concerned, my research has convinced me that Islam is not and never was a religon of peace- it has always been spread by the sword. Always."

    mb: Ah this isnt my quote sir. Please stop spreading your propoganda. I thought you christians were supposed tell the truth......Damn you guys keep letting me down. I was just thinking about going back to church too.
  49. Bullfrog Says:
    @Mark: I stand corrected, I didn't realize you were quoting Bold when that statement was made in your comment.

    You are not gonna get me on a technicality though, I'm still waiting on some proof from you.

    Let's revisit an earlier comment made by Shavonne:

    "Of course, I think Islam is a religion of nonsense, but I think that of all religions. Believe in God and nothing else"

    Now, this statement is obviously purely opinion, and is not accompanied by ANY reinforcing information that proves either religion is nonsense, so to me it has no merit in a real debate.

    To Mark, it is utterly brilliant, let's see how he responded:

    "mb: Thank you Shavone for that beautiful smack down of intolerant religous folk. I love when religion gets smacked around,..."

    This is characteristic of the tact you take with every discussion I have ever seen you take part in on this blog. A non-sensical, unsupported assertion is deemed to be the most brilliantly formed argument ever made, and you proclaim that you have "lit someone up" or "punished" them. What gives?

    Your integrity is waining and it is becoming a waste of time to even discuss this with you because you make up your own self-serving imaginary rules as the discussion goes along.
  50. Bullfrog Says:
    It is also typical that you completely ignored the real meat of my argument and decided instead to focus on the fact that I misquoted you, a great strategic move for someone with no REAL argument at all. Now YOU have been punished, care for more?

    Keep talking...
  51. mark Says:
    @ 50

    Now YOU have been punished, care for more?

    Keep talking...

    mb: I love it when christians talk trash its so cute. Ill be back in a few days, Im doing a little info gathering. Punishment will resume then


    P.S Something tells me that no matter how much I refute your non sense you will never give me the credit I so richly deserve. Woe is me. Sigh............
  52. Bullfrog Says:
    @Mark: Info gathering? Does this mean you plan to actually make a statement and substantiate it with actual facts? Clutch the pearls! I can't wait!

    I wait with baited breathe that this isn't yet another of your delusions of grandeur...
  53. mark Says:
    Im in your head baby. I own you.
  54. mark Says:
    @ BF

    I wait with baited breathe that this isn't yet another of your delusions of grandeur...


    No one, group or groups of persons spread graneur as much as the religons of the planet. Including Christianity.

    I mean plagues, creating worlds in six days, floods, gigantics ships that can hold all of gods land animals Were talking about Insect, reptiles, mamals, were talking about dozen of thousands of different specias and thier food all contained on 1 wooden ship. If that is not a delusion of grandeur, I dont know what is.
  55. Bullfrog Says:
    Mark: Usually "delusion of grandeur" is when someone thinks alot of themselves. If you want to apply this to my belief that God did what He said He did, it would be more like, "Delusion of God's Grandeur". I obviously can't take credit for:

    1. Plagues
    2. Creating worlds in six days
    3. Floods
    4. Gigantics ships that can hold all of gods land animals Were talking about Insect, reptiles, mamals, were talking about dozen of thousands of different specias and thier food all contained on 1 wooden ship

    But I would love for you to prove that none of these things happened.

    It seems that you are only willing to believe what you deem plausible, and are completely uninterested in scientific facts or historical documentation. That's ONE way to get through life, good luck with that.

    BTW, shouldn't you be "info gathering" so you can come at me with a real argument? Get on the pony! Times a' wastin'!
  56. mark Says:
    I dont think so highly of myself BF, If the house cat knows that he can take out a gerbel that doesnt mean the house cat believes he is a Saber tooth tiger.
  57. Bullfrog Says:
    @Mark: In the famous words of the immortal negro poet James Brown, you really are, "Talkin' Loud and Sayin' Nothing".
  58. Anonymous Says:
    as far as i am concern Islam and Mexico, if they care enough about their country maybe they should change their beliefs. Education, equality, freedom to express , beliefs, health care, women rights, justice, not give in to drug lords, or muslums who believe only their religion and laws. their country and lives could be better.
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